Just read NYC Tims posting on the Pontins thread, and am saddened so many local businesses in Llandudno are struggling.

What a wonderful area, and it really bothers to have both the U.S. and the U.K. go through these times.

Here in America we have a law called "Affirmative Action". This has allowed foriegn nationals from Asia to take over the IT, Medical, and Pharmacuetical jobs at the expense of American citizens.

It is a complete myth they work for less, often they are paid more!

I just spoke with a pal in New Jersey who works in IT who can't get employeed because he is not Indian. The Indians he interviews with are extremely harsh and brutal (same experience) and only hire Indians.

This country had years to hire American Indians and African Americans, and instead shipped every job out of the country and placed rules (federal minority credits) that give preferential treatment to immigrants en-mass.

India is the most corrupt country on the planet, with a cast system.

Now that 'they' have transformed the UK and US economies into 'service' economies, the Asians have kept their jobs even in these times.

Until the U.S. and U.K. address this we are all screwed.

MPF

Is this post for real ?

Not sure if this is the correct location for posts this nature.

Harsh words my friend, harsh words indeed.

This racist drivel has no place on an Alarm message board.

Or anywhere else for that matter.

Unbelievable.

quote:

Originally posted by Graz:
This racist drivel has no place on an Alarm message board.

Or anywhere else for that matter.

Unbelievable.

Was tempted to say "off topic"!

And I bet he "celebrated" the Irish day too !!

This is a repeating story in the IT, Medical and Pharmacuetical fields. It is what it is.
Stating the facts does not make one a racist. That card is played to keep people quiet, who do not want their careers or lives ruined by being labeled that. In effect freedom of speech is gone. The massive unemployment crisis was caused by lenient unchecked immigration and shipping as many jobs as possible out of the UK and US. Additionally, immigrant birth rates are almost 3 to 1 as compared to legal citizens. That is a take over of the economy and political system. So wake up, and please do not attempt to attach the R word improperly. Just remember that Finland was forced to take in Nigerian refugees who turned out to be ex-paramilitary murderers and they got nothing but crime for it. If places like Llandudno are screwed then we are screwed.

Thinking about the current crisis, Llandudno, and a friend in NJ who is experiencing what many peers are experiencing, it just seems the current system is broken - on that I may have been more eloguent yet I'll stand my ground.

If anything this was posted (unintended)this in the wrong spot, so hopefully it can be moved to Political discussions or what ever it is.

Make your Stand like the Alarm sang. Don't give it all away like The Alarm sang on Change.
Keep it together like The Alarm sang on EOTH. And stay true to yourself like The Alarm sang on RAW.

Addressing this meant offshoring, and immigration policies that do not match the realities of the job markets.

Finally, I do not get the Irish Day comment - what was that about??? Sounded racist to me!

MPF

This message has been edited. Last edited by: The Blue Baron,

Phew....Llandudno grew on tourism and as such has attracted many new incomers. Used to be Italian-count the restaurants-and that goes back to the 50s/60s. Later, Chinese, and now Poles. Many work in the hotels. Hasn't changed the nature of the place.

I thought Patrick's day was widely celebrated in the US of A? I have a slight aversion to it because Wales has its own saint, and the Welsh also had a big influence over there, hear "Statue of Liberty".

And I didn't want to offend DougM who will suffer enough on Saturday when we spoil their Grand Slam party (It's Rugby Mr Baron)

quote:

Originally posted by The Blue Baron:
Make your Stand like the Alarm sang. Don't give it all away like The Alarm sang on Change.
Keep it together like The Alarm sang on EOTH. And stay true to yourself like The Alarm sang on RAW.

That's right, The Alarm did all of those things but never ever once did they disparage a race of people.
In fact if you truly understood what The Alarm sang about it was about embracing people who were different, who were "outsiders" and celebrating those differences and not tearing each other down.

I have been following this thread for the past couple of days and would just wish to add a few comments of my own on the subject.

Whilst I in no way condone the remarks made by The Blue Baron, I do believe we have to be extremely careful when labelling somebody as rascist for expressing an opinion which differs from and is not as P.C as that which we might hold ourselves.

Immigration has brought many benefits to this island and these benefits I'm sure outweigh the negative tensions that occasionally result. However it is not bloody rocket science to take a look at the island of G.B on an atlas and discover that we do not have the same land mass as say Germany or France ( 2 countries who imposed a limit on the number of eastern europeans migrating to their lands under eec rules) and therefore we either have to impose a limit ourselves or take a real draconian stand like the chinese ( god forbid) and impose a one child policy. The country is bursting at the seams we do not have the infrastructure (transport links, good social housing, health and educational facilities) to cope with the influx we have seen.

What's more in this economic climate of rising unemployment and a cross party consensus that we should be tough with benefit claimants, we have neither the finances nor the understanding to enable us to deal with such a crisis.

One of my brothers is currently overseas in Malaysia, working with the poor and destitute in a voluntary capacity and ploughing all his life savings into a project that will bring shelter and sustainance to some very poor people indeed. So please do not think of my comments as being rascist but merely pointing out the dilema we are in.

Finally, is it rascist to criticise those militant islamist fundamentalists wwho vented their anger and frustrations recently at the returning combat soldiers who had given their lives and service. You see to that I simply say if you don't like it. you're free to leave.

I am sure that way back in the very distant past, when The Alarm where writing The Stand/Change etc they never for one moment thought that the lyrics would be misused to suit right wing views like these??
If it is fair game to use the lyrics of M.P to justify a view point on this topic, can I recommend you listen to 'Beautiful Thing' off the Breathe album - who knows you may actually reflect on your misuse of this forum & go to a more appropriate website that will gladly welcome such distorted views - The K.K.K. are always looking for new recruits!!

"You may be rich
You may be poor
You may have nothing in this world at all
You may be black,you maybe white
You may be a prisioner in your own times
You may be lost. you may be found
You may have been beaten up and knocked to the ground
You may have belief, suffer from deceit
Or you just might be blind
Oh no no

You may affect the truth
You may be seen as false
You may be a king or a vagabond
You may be up, you may be down
You may sit in judgement with the rest of the clowns
You may have love
You may have hate
You may be the president of the united states
But even you, you cant sit and hide
While the worlds resources die"

"We've got to cross that bridge and conquer hate
Keep on crossing 'til there comes a time
When the colour of a man is not emphasised
Like the earth, the wind, the morning sky
Until the Indian Nation is recognised
If I was to be judged by the colour of my eyes
I'd be a little green man not black and not white
Don't judge a book by it's cover
Don't judge a man by his colour "

'nuff said.

Don't try to quote Alarm /Mike lyrics to support a racist position, it doesn't belong here.

Andi Badge

Baron, man you know how to stir people up! It's a real hot potato this subject and it doesn't help using language that can easily be thought of as racist, like blaming crime on the influx of foreigners for instance. That and the old line about "but they are taking our jobs" is National Front & BNP fodder that flames the divide in our cities and countries. Back in the late 70's when I was a lad of teenage years we stood toe to toe against such despicable lies through Rock Against Racism and the Anti-Nazi League. We had these blokes from the NF outside our school (at least half the pupils were not white) recruiting to their cause. It was terrible to witness on a daily basis the awful treatment of my British born West Indian friends.

Music helped me to shape so many aspects of my thinking and when I read those lyrics that Andi posted above I was more than happy to see that the lyrics of Mike & The Alarm merely confirm all that I grew up with through listening to The Clash, Sham 69, The Specials and so much more.

I know that this issue is one that needs debate but if we debate it here then we need to be very very careful that the language we use does not bring anger and hate to a place where people are very passionate about standing up for their fellow man.

I do hope and pray that those comments relating to joining the K.K.K were not aimed at me. I was merely stating my opinion on the current immigration scene (WHICH INCIDENTALLY IS FAR REMOVED FROM THAT OF THE MID EIGHTIES) and reflecting on the unfortunate situation we have not just in Britain but globally whereby for each 100 asylum seekers/legal immigrants we provide care, love and shelter for, a small minority be it 2 0r 3 will turn their attention to anti - british causes.

I love the music of The Alarm for its sense of community and belonging and the lyrics to their songs prove the point that that we should all live as one and cast aside our differences in an attempt to connect better and establish a peaceful more tolerant society.

I,m sure however that you'll agree that one persons interpretatation of a songs lyrics/newspaper article/piece of news does often and rightly so differ from anothers. I'd like to post this poem I wrote a few years back which has since been published in a couple of books to best explain what I mean:-

INTERPRETATION

What is black and what is white?
What seperates the day from night?
When will the blind see the light?
Searching for peace, why must we fight?

Freedom of choice - a pair of wrangler jeans
Symbol of a generation still in their teens
Challenging conformity or so it seems
Me, I'm confused by what it all means

It's all down to interpretation my friend
What is the beginning and where does it end?
Is the present for real or just pretend
Is it wiser to accuse or sometimes defend

Isn't it ironic where priorities lie
Billions on beeaurocracy, does it help you and I
The subject of euphenasia and the right to die
Become an immoral dilema, please explain why

Satellite communications and the tele-visual age
Government only recently adopts the minimum wage
One step forward and two steps back
Are we really progressing along the track

In the distant horizon a beacon still glows
Will they find a cure for cancer? Nobody knows
Will we receive answers to the messages we send
It's all down to interpretation my friend

quote:

Originally posted by EWAN WALKER:
Whilst I in no way condone the remarks made by The Blue Baron, I do believe we have to be extremely careful when labelling somebody as rascist for expressing an opinion which differs from and is not as P.C as that which we might hold ourselves.

Ewan, you express your opinions much more eloquently than the Blue Baron. I have no problem with anyone expressing an opinion that is different to mine, and I know that a lot of people have strong opinions and feelings on immigration.

I have no problem with that. However, a comment such as The Blue Baron's:

"The Indians he interviews with are extremely harsh and brutal (same experience) and only hire Indians."

is blatantly racist.

I work in IT in a multi national organisation. Half of our IT support is outsourced to an Indian company, and I work alongside many of them. They are the most polite, courteous and hard working colleagues I have ever worked with.

Blue Baron - I have no problem with people discussing the political and economic pros and cons of outsourcing, offshoring or hiring immigrant workers. But to allude to the point of view that all Indians are harsh, brutal and corrupt is simply unacceptable.

I think that The Alarm and any true Alarm fan would be far more proud of someone taking a Stand against hatred and racism, than of someone taking a stand to promote thinly-veiled right wing jingoism.

With regard to your later comment that "India is the most corrupt country on the planet" - It is true that there is a lot of corruption in India, but the UK and US have their fair share too! Show me a country that doesn't. To imply someone is corrupt because of the country they come from, is as racist as saying they are corrupt because of the colour of their skin.

Blue Baron - you are right when you say "Stating the facts does not make one a racist."

No it doesn't. But implying a whole race of people are brutal, harsh and corrupt does. That is not fact. That is your (and your racist friend's) opinion.

I am all for freedom of speech and would not want to deny anyone that right. However, I defend my right to respond.

So, I am making a stand, and I stand by my original comment. That post was racist, and people who make such comments on a public forum must expect that they are going to be called to task.

"We have got to stand together, forget the East and West"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Graz,

Blue - can you make sure that all things off topic get put in the off topic please - I'm getting kind of fed up moving all these posts!!!

I've been on holiday for a week and thought that we all played nicely on this forum.

Also can you keep rascism off this forum please - I've closed this topic and Blue you have broken one of the alarm forum codes.